The latest Side of Design podcast pulls back the curtain on PFAS, the infamous “forever chemicals” making headlines for their carcinogenic and environmentally damaging properties, and their widespread presence in many common finishes and materials—from stain-resistant couches to flame-retardant clothing to nonstick pans.
Host Matt Gerstner welcomes BWBR specialists Sara Biedenbender (Interior Designer), Kat Lauer (Project Planner), and Rachael Spires (Associate Principal and Performance Design & Quality Manager) for a lively conversation.
Everywhere You Don’t Want Them to Be
These aren’t just random chemicals—PFAS (Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances) comprise over 10,000 different compounds, all manufactured rather than naturally occurring. “They’re pervasive and everywhere, and inside our bodies now too,” Sara says.
What makes them so insidious? They simply refuse to break down. They bioaccumulate in tissues, soil, and water—persisting for generations while potentially contributing to a host of problems, including cancer, immune dysfunction, reproductive issues, and developmental problems.
There’s a reason PFAS are in such a wide range of products. “They have very important properties that we value, which are water resistance, grease resistance, stain resistance, and fire suppression,” Rachael explains. “PFAS are everywhere you want them to be, but also they’re everywhere we don’t want them to be.”
Making things messier? There’s a regulatory nightmare at play. “It’s sort of like a game of whack-a-mole,” she says. “[Authorities] can regulate one chemical by name, but then [manufacturers] just change the name or change one thing about it and it’s something new.” This sleight of hand keeps problematic substances on shelves despite growing awareness of their dangers.
The Scientific Catch-22
Those trying to study these contaminants tend to run headlong into a seriously maddening paradox: How do you measure trace amounts of chemicals when your very laboratory might be leaching those same compounds?
Kat takes us through the forensic-level attention required when designing PFAS testing facilities. Researchers need environments free from the very substances they’re hunting—down to parts per trillion precision. “If your flooring material and your wall material and your ceiling material all have PFAS, then you can have background contamination in your data.”
The contamination trail runs surprisingly deep and can pull from O-rings in plumbing, wire lubricants from construction, and even lunch wrappers brought into break rooms. Each potential source undermines the scientific integrity of ultra-sensitive measurements.
The tricky measuring process is just one of the reasons it’s so difficult to tackle the “forever chemical” problem. Then again, there is hope.
Fighting Back with Better Choices
In the face of big challenges associated with PFAS, BWBR has thrown its weight behind real solutions. Sara outlines BWBR’s commitment to the AIA Framework for Design Excellence Materials Pledge, which evaluates materials through five crucial lenses: human health, ecosystem health, social health and equity, climate health, and circular economy.
“We require transparency and documentation for our materials and finishes,” Sara says. These health product declarations and environmental product declarations force manufacturers to disclose ingredients—shining light into previously murky supply chains.
Market winds seem to be shifting a bit, and BWBR is very happy to have company in the quest for better, safer choices. Kat has spotted a welcome trend in industry communications: “More and more of them are saying, ‘Hey, we’ve removed PFAS, we’re taking these chemicals out of our products.'” Minnesota has already banned PFAS in carpets and fabric treatments, with plans for a comprehensive ban by 2032. The hope is that the momentum encourages other states to follow.
Sometimes Older is Better
Rachael offers a great parallel between healthy eating and healthy buildings. “Author Michael Pollan has the whole thing of ‘eat plants, not too much’ and ‘don’t eat anything that has an ingredient that your grandma wouldn’t have recognized.’ Well, when we look at what products don’t have PFAS, it’s mostly plants.”
The team points to traditional, time-tested materials—wool, cork, stone, wood—that have served humanity for centuries without chemical enhancement. This rush toward chemical “improvements” might actually represent a step backward. Kat talks about how modern maintenance preferences pushed us toward questionable tradeoffs: “We just sort of got used to a one-size-fits-all cleaning regimen for building maintenance, which is simple and great, but maybe it came with a cost.”
The Bright Side
We can’t undo what’s already been built, but we can focus on PFAS-free materials when building or renovating today. Awareness is the first step, and there is a lot of opportunity to turn that awareness into action.
“I’m optimistic,” Rachael says. “Especially now that we’re starting to see significant movement with companies, and with states putting in bans.”
While the high long-term cost of PFAS should sound the alarm bells, these insights can also form the basis of a practical roadmap challenging designers and consumers alike to make material choices that are healthier for our bodies and our planet.
